can some one please help me in this topic, what does the scripture mean when it says "and be not drunk with wine wherein in excess' does it mean there is a certain amount of drinking allowed for children of god?

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The mystery of wine? The wine of God? Ok... But know that the Father has now announced that he is provoked. Noah knew the secret of making wine! How to grow grapes for the winepress.


  1. [21] And he drank of the  wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
  2. [24] And Noah awoke from his  wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
  3. Gen.14

    1. [18] And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and  wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.


    1. [32] Come, let us make our father drink  wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

Melchizedek is not Jesus! Jesus is Isaac.


  1. [32] Come, let us make our father drink  wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father

Does the wisdom of God and her Daughters think it would be that easy?


  1. [40] And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of  wine for a drink offering.

Do the Israelite Terrphim think it would be that easy?


  1. [14] And Eli said unto her,(ie My Mama) How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy  wine from thee.

Did Eli think he could make a Priest out of me? Did he think it would be easy?


  1. [65] Then the Lord awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of  wine.

The marriage supper of Cana where they took the girl from the wrong person? And were made drucken on their own filth and the mire of the streets?


  1. [12] Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with  wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with  wine?[13] Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.
    [14] And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

CANA!= Joel.3 [3] And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for  wine, that they might drink.


[1] Woe to them that are at ease in Zion, and trust in the mountain of Samaria, which are named chief of the nations, to whom the house of Israel came! [2] Pass ye unto Calneh, and see; and from thence go ye to Hamath the great: then go down to Gath of the Philistines: be they better than these kingdoms? or their border greater than your border? [3] Ye that put far away the evil day, and cause the seat of violence to come near; [4] That lie upon beds of ivory, and stretch themselves upon their couches, and eat the lambs out of the flock, and the calves out of the midst of the stall; [5] That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of musick, like David; [6] That drink  wine in bowls, and anoint themselves with the chief ointments: but they are not grieved for the affliction of Joseph.

Cana Girl=Wine

Those that provoke God=Their own filth =wine


  1. [3] And when they wanted  wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no  wine.
  2. [9] When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made  wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
  3. [10] And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good  wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good  wine until now.

wine = blood of Jesus


  1. [28] For  this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


  1. [24] And he said unto them,  This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

[26] And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
[27] And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
[28] For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
[29] But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.


  1. [23] Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy  stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Paul consecrated Timothy as bishop of Ephesus in the year 65, where he served for 15 years. In the year 97 (with Timothy dying at age 80), Timothy tried to halt a pagan procession of idols, ceremonies, and songs. In response to his preaching of the gospel, the angry pagans beat him, dragged him through the streets, and stoned him to death. In the 4th century, his relics were transferred to the Church of the Holy Apostles in Constantinople.


In order to understand the use of wine in the ascension of Jesus one must have knowledge of the wine cult in the Greco roman world. The first conversion to what later became known as "Christianity" had it's roots in the Dionysian wine cult!

2nd century Roman statue of Dionysus, after a Hellenistic model (ex-coll. Cardinal Richelieu, Louvre)[1]2nd century Roman statue of Dionysus, after a Hellenistic model (ex-coll. Cardinal Richelieu, Louvre)[1]

Dionysus pron.: /d.əˈnsəs/ dy-ə-NY-səs (Ancient Greek: Διόνυσος, Dionysos) was the god of the grape harvest, winemaking and wine, of ritual madness and ecstasy in Greek mythology. His name in Linear B tablets shows he was worshipped from c. 1500—1100 BC by Mycenean Greeks: other traces of Dionysian-type cult have been found in ancient Minoan Crete.[2] His origins are uncertain, and his cults took many forms; some are described by ancient sources as Thracian, others as Greek.[3][4][5] In some cults, he arrives from the east, as an Asiatic foreigner; in others, from Ethiopia in the South. He is a god of epiphany, "the god that comes," and his "foreignness" as an arriving outsider-god may be inherent and essential to his cults. He is a major, popular figure of Greek mythology and religion, and is included in some lists of the twelve Olympians. Dionysus was the last god to be accepted into Mt. Olympus. He was the youngest and the only one to have a mortal mother.[6] His festivals were the driving force behind the development of Greek theatre. He is an example of a dying god.[7][8]

The earliest cult images of Dionysus show a mature male, bearded and robed. He holds a fennel staff, tipped with a pine-cone and known as a thyrsus. Later images show him as a beardless, sensuous, naked or half-naked androgynous youth: the literature describes him as womanly or "man-womanish."[9] In its fully developed form, his central cult imagery shows his triumphant, disorderly arrival or return, as if from some place beyond the borders of the known and civilized. His procession (thiasus) is made up of wild female followers (maenads) and bearded satyrs with erect penises. Some are armed with the thyrsus, some dance or play music. The god himself is drawn in a chariot, usually by exotic beasts such as lions or tigers, and is sometimes attended by a bearded, drunken Silenus. This procession is presumed to be the cult model for the human followers of his Dionysian Mysteries. In his Thracian mysteries, he wears the bassaris or fox-skin, symbolizing a new life. Dionysus is represented by city religions as the protector of those who do not belong to conventional society and thus symbolizes everything which is chaotic, dangerous and unexpected, everything which escapes human reason and which can only be attributed to the unforeseeable action of the gods.[10]

He was also known as Bacchus (pron.: /ˈbækəs/ or /ˈbɑːkəs/; Greek: Βάκχος, Bakkhos), the name adopted by the Romans[11] and the frenzy he induces, bakkheia. His thyrsus is sometimes wound with ivy and dripping with honey. It is a beneficent wand but also a weapon, and can be used to destroy those who oppose his cult and the freedoms he represents. He is also the Liberator (Eleutherios), whose wine, music and ecstatic dance frees his followers from self-conscious fear and care, and subverts the oppressive restraints of the powerful. Those who partake of his mysteries are possessed and empowered by the god himself.[12] His cult is also a "cult of the souls"; his maenads feed the dead through blood-offerings, and he acts as a divine communicant between the living and the dead.[13]

In Greek mythology, he is presented as a son of Zeus and the mortal Semele, thus semi-divine or heroic: and as son of Zeus and Persephone or Demeter, thus both fully divine, part-chthonic and possibly identical with Iacchus of the Eleusinian Mysteries. Some scholars believe that Dionysus is a syncretism of a local Greek nature deity and a more powerful god from Thrace or Phrygia such as Sabazios[14] or Zalmoxis.[15]

Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite, also known as Pseudo-Denys, was a Christian theologian and philosopher of the late 5th to early 6th century, the author of the Corpus Areopagiticum (before 532).

Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite

The author is identified as "Dionysos" in the corpus, which later incorrectly came to be attributed to Dionysius the Areopagite, the Athenian convert of St. Paul mentioned in Acts 17:34.[1] His surviving works include Divine Names, Mystical Theology,[2] Celestial Hierarchy, Ecclesiastical Hierarchy, and various epistles.[3] Some other works, such as Theological Outlines, are presumed to be lost.

His works are mystical and show strong Neoplatonic influence. For example he uses Plotinus' well-known analogy of a sculptor cutting away that which does not enhance the desired image. He shows familiarity with Proclus, which indicates he wrote no earlier than the 5th century, as well as influence from Saint Clement of Alexandria, the Cappadocian Fathers, Origen of Alexandria, and others. The liturgical references in his writings also date his works after the 4th century. His writings were first cited in 519 in a work by Severus of Antioch, Adversus apologiam Juliani, who cited the Fourth Letter.[4] Debates over the author of the Dionysian corpus began in the Renaissance.

There is a distinct difference between pagan Neoplatonism and that of Eastern Christianity. In the former all life returns to the source to be stripped of individual identity, a process called henosis,[5] while in orthodox Christianity the Likeness of God in man is restored by grace (by being united to God the Holy Trinity through participation in His divine energies), a process called theosis.[6]

Dionysos appears to have belonged to the group which attempted a compromise between monophysitism and orthodox teaching. His thought was initially used by monophysites to back up parts of their arguments but his writings were eventually adopted by other church theologians, primarily due to the work of John of Scythopolis and Maximus the Confessor in producing an orthodox interpretation.[7]

The Dionysian writings and their mystical teaching were universally accepted throughout the East, amongst both Chalcedonians and non-Chalcedonians. St. Gregory Palamas, for example, in referring to these writings, calls the author, "an unerring beholder of divine things". In the West the manuscripts became popular amongst theologians, particularly through the medium of John Scotus Eriugena. Thomas Aquinas cites Pseudo-Dionysius over 1700 times.[8] Dionysius' portrayal of the "via negativa" was particularly influential among contemplatives and mystical theologians.[9]

During the medieval period Saint Dionysius the Areopagite and Saint Denis of Paris were considered to be the same "Dionysius" who had been converted by Saint Paul in Acts 17:34.[10] Medieval tradition held that Saint Dionysius the Areopagite had traveled to Rome and then was commissioned by the Pope to preach in Gaul (France), where he was martyred.[11] This confusion of historical detail was compounded by the common acceptance of Pseudo-Dionysius's writings as the authentic work of the Biblical Dionysius of Acts 17:34. The great Abbey of Saint-Denis just north of Paris claimed to have the relics of Dionysius. Around 1121, Pierre Abélard, a Benedictine monk at Saint Denis Basilica, turned his attention to the story of their patron saint, and disentangled the three different Dionysiuses. The monks were offended at the apparent demotion of Saint Denis, and Abélard did not remain long at Saint Denis. The confusion over the text might stem from the text being an oral tradition (declamatio) that was only at a later date finally put to record. According to the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy "It must also be recognized that 'forgery' is a modern notion. Like Plotinus and the Cappadocian Fathers before him, Dionysius does not claim to be an innovator, but rather a communicator of a tradition." [12]

The monastery of St. Denis, which had inadvertently conflated the two Dionysiuses, had a good Greek edition of Pseudo-Dionysius's works given to them by Charles the Bald, which was translated into Latin by John Scotus Eriugena in the late 9th century. This translation widely popularized both Pseudo-Dionysius' teaching and his explanation of the angels.[c

It is Noah that is the God of wine in the ancient lore. Noah introduces wine after the destruction of the post ice age world. Noah is naked and filled with wine thus Dionysus is portrayed as naked. What you are looking at here is the forbidden image of the Father Noah! Whose name has been changed to Dionysus God of the Grape harvest. Noah=Dionysus

2nd century Roman statue of Dionysus, after a Hellenistic model (ex-coll. Cardinal Richelieu, Louvre)[1]2nd century Roman statue of Dionysus, after a Hellenistic model

The act of "Memory" that Jesus created with wine enabled him to ascend as Dionysus Rex Apocalypticus Alpha and Omega instantly. And Peter is his "Messenger" to the Dionystia the interior cult in Rome. Peter has ambrosial wine during Caligula, Claudius, Messalina the great Whore Empress, and Nero...

I'll put it simply, so that you don't have to read all that was written before now....It means exactly what it says....Do not drink in access (be not drunk).....There is no certain amount limit, but....You should know when you've had enough....If you feel a "buss" as meany people claim they feel, then you are drunk....That is what God wants you to stay clear of....

You miss the point Eloise. The wine is the Blood of Christ. The ability to make the Christ. I am the true vine? An Apocalyptic Metaphor for the actual Christ child? The Conversion of the Dionysian cultus to Christ? It's Roots in Noah. And it's ok if you despise knowledge of God's mysteries, but please don't discourage others from reading! Wine is not just Wine in God, it is very important in Apocalyptic writing. The coming of Jesus and the Holy Spirit is the time of Grape harvest again! And the wine is used to destroy the nations. We don't use toooo much or the world would be destroyed!

Jesus was known to drink wine Ric....Are you saying He drank His own blood?

Yes, I Know about the Blood of Christ, for as you say, He is the true vine.....

Now...Why don't you go back up to the top, and re-read the question....No, I don't miss the point Ric...I answered his question, about drinking, consuming, wine.....

There are places in Africa where Christians are being killed for drinking wine! Wine and any Alchohol is banned in islamic lands! This is very serious and we are not just talking wine but the blood of Christ!

Noah/Dionysus planted the vine... thus John.15

[1] I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. [2] Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. [3] Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. [4] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. [5] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. [6] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. [7] If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.


  1. [23] Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy  stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
Moderation is a key.


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