The Holy Spirit (Ruach HaKodesh) is Not a Seperate Person From the Father

The Holy Spirit ( Ruach HaKodesh ) is Not a Seperate Person from the Father

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The Holy Spirit is God, but it is not a separate entity. The holy Spirit is God, but it is not a seperate entity.  It is simply the presence and power of God Himself. Nowhere in the Bible is the Holy Spirit ever said to be an equal member of a trinity.  Nobody ever prays to it, nobody ever talks to it, none of the New Testament writers ever send greetings from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is how God extends His presence and power to His creation. Psalm 139: 7 states: "Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence?" Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words defines the Hebrew word spirit as: 1. breath of life. 2. mind set, of one’s mind or thinking. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is God’s mind renewing your mind. This is why our way of thinking changes when we receive the Holy Spirit. Through God’s mind comes His power. 1 Corinthians 2:11 states:"For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit (mind) within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God," (the mind of God). The Bible refers to the Holy Spirit as God’s Spirit or the Spirit of God. It is the Spirit (the mind) of the Holy One, "God."


I'm always a little confused about what you believe about this Alan, Not to argue with you (Even if you would enjoy it!) But, the way I see it you have your basic ADONAI, Yehweh, Yahweh (whichever) OR the Hebrew One God Guy that Exists and Exists (The All) I figure HE must be all because HE is there at the eternaly smallest place and everywhere to the Most Macro of places and HE sees everything in a way that only an"ALL" can. Only "ALL" cannot be ALL here at the same time (causes big bang stuff) SO, a second thing must exist in order for a dialog to happen, Could be an Angel, But for direct dialog The Mind of God or Holy Spirit or Word of God or Wisdom of God or maybe even the Helper ,,,, Get it? Now what the Word and Wisdom of God needs is a spokesman or something to talk through , Like the cloud, or the bush,,,, clouds and bushes don't talk back or have a mind of their own, Prophets work but what really does the trick is complete submission to the Word of God, This person must give up on His own life and allow the Spirit to work through Him, This Person cannot be God (See big bang above) but it may appear that this Person is the Word and Wisdom of God because every aspect and every word from His mouth IS THAT OF GOD ,,, well thats the way I see it ,,,, or you can just go with the God is an egg thing (You know the 3 in 1 tripack) (The Tripackinity).

@ akavichy....where have I said different....

Well Alan, That's what I am puzzled about ,,,, This isn't a Trinity belief, but it explains my view of the Connections I think are happening and sort of why Trinity beliefs are so easy for people to grab on to ,,, Kind of a fine line really.

People have tried to make the Holy Spirit an independent, co-equal , omniscient, omnipotent, entity, who is really now called "God the Holy Spirit,"(a name which does not exist in the entire Bible) who is a member of a triune God. There is no evidence for this claim. People have taken simple verses and filled them with conjecture. Let me give you an example: 2 Corinthians 13: 13 or 14 depending on the translation states: "May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all." Just because you mention God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit in the same sentence does not make them the same being. In Luke 9: 28 it says:"About eight days after Jesus said this, He took Peter, John and James with Him and went up onto a mountain to pray."If we hold to the same logic that is being applied to 2 Corinthians 13: 13, then Jesus, Peter, John, and James are the same being. The Old Testament never thought of the Holy Spirit as a person distinct from the Father. J.D. Michaelis who is an eminent professor of biblical languages states: "It cannot be proved, out of the whole number of passages in the Old Testament in which the Holy Spirit is mentioned, that it is a distinct person in the Godhead." The New Testament cannot contradict the Old Testament. There was no exchange of God’s. It is the same God throughout the Bible. In many Bible translations people have tried to make the Holy Spirit a person by translating the "Paraclete" as "him" instead of "it," as in John 14:15-17. It should be "it". People have translated it as "him" for theological reasons.


The purpose of this is not to weaken someone's faith, on the contrary, it should if anything, strengthen your beliefs.  It should however, give you enough questions about the trinity to force you to go and do some research for yourself, at least for the piece of mind that you have not been mislead. However, if you do any kind of research, you will find that the Doctrine of the Trinity is completely man made.  It was not taught by Jesus nor his Apostles. It is a product of the influence of Greek philosophy upon the early Christian church of the first few centuries. The Bible, Jesus, and the Apostles are all Jewish. One has to read and interpret the Bible with an understanding of what a particular verse meant to a first century Jew. Unfortunately, as the early church grew and spread all over the world, the leaders of the church were no longer Jews, but non-Jews (Gentiles).  In the first few centuries, the international language was Greek, much like English is today. This is why the New Testament is written in Greek. Greek philosophy was considered to be the most enlightened teaching of its time. The problem of interpreting the Bible by Gentiles who were schooled in Greek philosophy is that the two do not mix. Someone using Greek philosophy to interpret Hebrew documents is going arrive at some very mistaken conclusions. I like to use an example that I heard from a friend of mine to illustrate this point. If an Englishman says, "I am mad about my flat." He means that "he is excited about his apartment." To an American it means that "he is angry about his flat tire."Keep in mind that in this example they are both speaking English in the same century. Imagine interpreting Hebrew writings from a different century, using Greek philosophy to determine their meanings. The outcome can only be disastrous!

Interpreting Hebrew writings from a different century, using Greek philosophy to determine their meanings effected Christianity in three major areas. 1. Death (what happens when you die). 2. The kingdom of God. 3. The nature of Jesus. I will only be concerned with the last onein this discussion.  The Doctrine of the Trinity. Is it Biblical, or is it a man made tradition? As a Christian I would want to be certain on this point. Look at all the evidence, and then make up your mind.

Man, you really nailed this! and Yes, it is really screwed up to translate a concrete language useing abstracts, You wind up rejecting the concrete meanings for abstract ones and by extention the good Christians of the 4th century began outlawing anything Jewish ,,, and thats when things started getting really ugly.

What must a person do to have the Holy Spirit as you say?

How is he just simply the presence and power of God. Now the reason I ask this question is because when a person prays they are also praying to the Holy Spirit also as he is God also because God is one or should I say God is Spirit and not a spirit  as the Churches say in their bibles.

Below is what you started your discussion with:

"Nobody ever prays to it, nobody ever talks to it, none of the New Testament writers ever send greetings from the Holy Spirit."

God is not a thing as you used the term it above, God is Spirit.

Please do not contradict yourself as this is what you stated in the beginning also;

"The Holy Spirit is God, but it is not a separate entity. The holy Spirit is God, but it is not a seperate entity"

As I asked please tell us first what we need so our thinking can be changed when we receive the Holy Spirit?

Below again is something you wrote;

"The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is God’s mind renewing your mind. This is why our way of thinking changes when we receive the Holy Spirit. "

Last question are we reborn or do we have our minds renewed?

@ Royll....{quote} Last question are we reborn or do we have our minds renewed?.....when you are reborn you have your minds renewed....1 I exhort you, therefore, brothers, in view of God's mercies, to offer yourselves as a sacrifice, living and set apart for God. This will please him; it is the logical "Temple worship" for you. 2 In other words, do not let yourselves be conformed to the standards of the 'olam hazeh. Instead, keep letting yourselves be transformed by the renewing of your minds; so that you will know what God wants and will agree that what he wants is good, satisfying and able to succeed. Romans 12:1-2 (Complete Jewish Bible)....well Royll, this is from one of Paul's Epistles (you like Paul so much)...and it is from the Complete Jewish Bible, not what you call church bibles...


With a freshly renewed mind it might be a good time for other changes, I found this article;

Renew your underwear regularly

The statistics shows that men tend to replace their underwear once in eight years. Even if this data is not that accurate, men still should not be afraid of throwing away their underwear with the smallest signs of decay like small holes, tiny rips and little fray. I don’t think it is an expensive price to pay for a perfect look from head to toes.


Renew Your Attitude About Your Resolutions, Renew your Alabama State Drivers License, American Passport and the newspaper in the bottom of the bird cage.

Only then grasshoper can you climb the mountain and renew your Spirit. Or something zen like that.

It is great to see your passion and interest in this subject, although I find myself disagreeing with you.  I think the Holy Spirit is a person, although not entirely separate, as the Godhead is unified as one.

I would like to see your opinion of John 16:13-16, where the spirit is called a "he".  I checked several translations and find the same and don't see much theological bias here.  In the Greek text I find the word ekeinos, which is a masculine pronoun, according to Vines notes and other theological works.  The same can be deduced in John 14. 

I think one can argue that the parakletos even pleads our case...  He is our advocate.


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