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Permalink Reply by alan walton on March 3, 2012 at 6:21pm

@ Chris....whether or not you hold it as fiction or not, the plain truth is the pre-trib rapture still is science -fiction and false doctrine....but you or anyone will find it impossible to sustain ANY position other than the one the Bible reveals which that the whole pre-trib doctrine that is so popular among many churches today is FALSE DOCTRINE....that is if you will be careful to truthfully study the scriptures to see what they actually say instead of what you want it to say....Although the pretribulation rapture theory is very popular today, given arguments that are offered in support of this doctrine we must declare Pretribulationalism to be contrary to the clear teachings of Scripture. Simply put, there is not one shred of evidence that can be found in the Bible to support the pretribulation rapture. The typical Pretribulational arguments offered reveal a pattern: of imposing one’s presuppositions onto a text without any exegetical justification whatsoever; of finding subtle meaning between words and/or phrases that were never intended by the author; of spiritualizing or ignoring passages that contradict the Pretribulational paradigm; and, of imposing Pretribulationalism upon passages that actually teach the unity of the eschatological complex (i.e., the rapture, second coming, general resurrection, and general judgment all occur on the same day—the day of the Lord). It is our hope and prayer that professing Christians would cast off this escapist fantasy and return to the task of personal sanctification and godly dominion.                Avshalom  (Alan)

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Permalink Reply by ministerKarl on March 4, 2012 at 1:21am

Truthfully Steve..... when I enter these 'christain bookstores' I see thousands of book, cds,dvds, magazines, toys, keyrings, and more..... 

I ask myself what can all these books bring to you that the bible doesnt.? Also to buy all that, would take 100's of thousands of dollars ...for what..... is that my point?   

When you then see the section of 100's of different bibles ranging from a few dollars to hundreds of dollars.

when i see all this my heart grieves.

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Permalink Reply by ministerKarl on March 4, 2012 at 1:33am

@ alan   you take immense time to explain this....

how does one explain the pinnacle of time, the entire salvation plan of God, the very point everything is created in a few words and i applaud your efforts.

there are 1 million lies about this, however there remains ONE truth, which is in Christ.

folks when you read comments on this discussion put the word 'rapture' (not in the bible) and all your ideas out of your head.

check the verses quoted..... do you get harmony or not; if you  dont then search all the related verses and study them.

people like alan spend alot of time to show you verses, go check them out carefully,

I see comments such  as i believe in pre; post amill etc etc  

 get biblical folks, the answer is in the bible, and if you serch and study diligently and correctly. 

Jesus gives us a  answer, of his entire timeline of creation. from beginning of time until the very end of time.

One truth, one God. When God says we are to seek him to see his face, he means study his word the bible.

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Permalink Reply by Zomok, steve on March 4, 2012 at 4:51am

This pop (or science fiction like) Eschatology (endtime theology talk) is overly complicated and violates Occams Razor.  It is not based on sound Biblical interpretations.

One of the reasons the whole house of cards, called Dispensational Futurism (akin to Hal Lindsay and Lahayism) is promoted....and I say this politely, is to hold onto the Old Covenant, and to promote the idea that the "Jews" are the exact same people that Moses lead out of Egypt.  This is the reason they will say there is two chosen people, even though the Bible says we are one new man in Christ (Ephesians 2).  This is the reason that they promote a tiny Jewish state, smaller than New Jersey, and smaller than Davids Israel, as a regathered Israel. Never mind what Galatians 3:29 and other verses say.  This is the reason for their vain and useless speaking about a New Temple in Old Jerusalem, even though, a New Spiritual temple and Jerusalem is being built upon the foundation of the prophets and apostles, with Yeshua being the head... (Ephesians 2:19-21, Galatians 4....etc...).  

This is the reason (and it is disgusting) some dispensationalist even say that a new Old Covenant type priesthood will be set up for work in and around the future New Temple!!!!!  And (as an afront to God) some of these dispensationalist even say, with a smile, these priests will start to sacrifice lambs and animals...  This will be abomination to God who has provided the perfect lamb, as the Book of Hebrews has explained.  This is also a reason they come up with a cock-eyed, and illogical view of Daniel 9 and the 70 weeks of years (=490), where they pound a 2000 year period between the 69 and 70th week.  Can one find an analogy? What if you are a parent and at 9:50 pm you tell your son or daughter that they have to be in bed by 11 pm. (or in 70 minutes) and at say 3 am you find the child up playing games..  When you ask the child why they are hours past their bedtime, the child boldly exclaims, 'the 70th minute has not came yet'!!!  (Needless to say the full 490 years of Dan. 9 was completed around 32-33AD. but a 7 year tribulation period and rapture was needed to help the house of cards to stand.)

The theology of the Left Behind series has left behind sound exegesis and clear scriptures.  It is strong on Science Fiction, weak on Bible...  A 

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Permalink Reply by Zomok, steve on March 4, 2012 at 4:13pm

I should add a link connecting the above to a related forum about True Israel~~~~

http://www.holypal.com/forum/topics/true-israel-and-the-day-of-jezr...

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