Why do you go to church?
I just want to get some feedback as to why some people go to chruch. Tell me how you feel about this.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by The Bunnfactor on -
Who said that a man-ordained Catholic priest is the only one able to administer His Body and His Blood? In Luke 22, Jesus broke the bread and passed it to His disciples and said, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me" I think people take this out of context too often. They think that just because Jesus was talking to the "12 apostles" that for some reason they were super special and receive special privileges and anointing that no one else could ever receive. The fact of the matter, though, is that this was not the great 12 that everyone paints the awesome picture of. When He is saying this to them, he's not talking to a group of church leaders and elders and pastors and whatever stupid title you want to give them--He is talking to a bunch of ignorant commoners who weren't even good enough to be disciples of the Rabbis of the time. I mean really, just a couple verses later, the great Peter, the supposed "Rock" that Christ build the Church on, denies he even knew Jesus 3 times, then wept bitterly. And this is the guy that we put our trust into? This is the guy who's opinion matters? One minute he said even if he had to die, he would, then less than 12 hours later he's denying he even knew him. Yeah, that's a spiritual leader I want to follow.
How about this--Jesus wasn't talking to the bunch of people we think of them as being--He was talking to people who hadn't a clue. He was talking to the common, everyday church goer. Not some great spiritual leader, but just a common man. They became great spiritual leaders through experience and the leading of the Holy Spirit. Receiving His Body and His Blood should be a personal experience facilitated by the Jesus, not an impersonal experience lorded over by some man that other men glorify. Who's the idolater? I don't see how Catholics don't get offended by the way the priest treat them. Do you know what the word "Laity" suggests? To me it's like saying I'm fodder--like I am barely worthy of the privilege to breathe. Did not God say in Exodus that we were to be a "kingdom of priests"? That would suggest we are all priest. If that's true, how is one man elevate higher than another? The Body of Christ is it an interdependency upon each other, where no man receives glory--God does.
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Permalink Reply by Disciple Mike on -
I dont agree that "Man" Ordains a priest. I beleive God does the ordaining through man. Just like the 12 were chosen and ordained by Jesus and the "Rock" that Jesus chose to build His church upon is someone who He thought was to become a Holy man so I would have to support Jesus on that. He also denied Jesus before he received the annointing of the Holy Spirit. After he receives the HS, he receives the gifts needed to carry the cross of leadership, so really cant follow your thought on that.
We also dont idolate the priest or the upper authority in the church. We respect them as leaders the same as with any structure. We feel that there must be organization to prevent chaos. I also am not offended because Im referred to as laity, and yes I am a priest as well as you but not in the same mannor as an ordained priest of the CC.
You seem to think that a priest is glorified or receives glory by man when in fact they are not. As for man glorifying them that is funny because most are looked down at by man. In fact its very humbling to be a priest in this world its nothing like the days of old were priest were held at a higher authority.
Let me ask you this, Why do you read and hold the authors writings in the New Testament as an authority in your life?
Blessings***
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Permalink Reply by The Bunnfactor on
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You said before that the redemptive aspect of Peter was the anointing of the Holy Spirit in his life. That is what makes the difference between the Kingdom and those that are not apart of the Kingdom. The Holy Spirit reveals Himself to me through the Bible. Not just the New Testament. I'm not going to argue with you the notary and importance of the Bible with you. You say I shouldn't be so close minded as to not look beyond the Bible, but I say perhaps you should try getting the Bible down before you seek inspiration from other sources first. The Holy Spirit, the same one that rose Christ from the dead, the same one that gave Peter the anointing to be the ROCK that the Church was built upon, lives in me. This is my authority. Not a book. But God speaks through a book because of His Spirit living inside of me. The absolute authority is God. Not the Bible, not the Pope, not any man--God. But God speaks through the Bible, through the Pope, and through God's appointed man in various positions in the Body.
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Permalink Reply by Art Fontaine on -
Dan it isn't that your missing church will let you praise God any less, your absence is like a body without a hand, it just wont perform as well as the body with all of it's parts. Together we make up the body of Christ. It is a team effort.
Following God's word shows obedience and that in itself is worship so to forsake the fellowship is to go against the Word....so it is good that the body work together...
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Permalink Reply by Dan on -
Thank you for your response. I think it's not so much where but how. Jesus outlined how to go to heaven and I don't think he said it had to be done at the temple. Not everyone has the ability or the means to make it there as much as they would like to. But what if one wise soul came to their home and they worshipped together? Wouldn't that then become their temple? Would God frown upon that or would He be joyful? Doesn't God have the ability to accept our love no matter where it comes from? Think about it, He created everything, the universe, the world and everything on it. He knows when he's praised and loved even if it was someone shipwrecked, by himself, on a desert island in the middle of the ocean. Does his love for God lose it's potency because he's alone or does God accept love from wherever it may come? In essence, if you think about what God's perspective must be like, all Christians accross the entire planet are one body. A temple is but a speck of dust in a mountain. Not one of us is more righteous than the other as some may think. There is no scale that weighs one sin versus another. The righteous don't need to be saved so isn't it funny that all of us do?
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Permalink Reply by Disciple Mike on
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Dan...
you said: "Not everyone has the ability or the means to make it there as much as they would like to."
True, but there are many who do have the means and can make the time.
you said: "Doesn't God have the ability to accept our love no matter where it comes from? Think about it, He created everything, the universe, the world and everything on it."
Again true, but then doesnt God have the right to sanctify what He desires and make it Holy? And if He does so, do we have the right to reject His teaching and claim to be obedient children of God?
you said: "He knows when he's praised and loved even if it was someone shipwrecked, by himself, on a desert island in the middle of the ocean."
Are you shipwrecked? Because unless you are how is this relevant. We cant compare ourselves to the blind if we are not blind.
you said: "Not one of us is more righteous than the other as some may think. There is no scale that weighs one sin versus another."
No, but some do greater works and some grow more then others in understanding. And yes, there are greater sins then others and each have a price to pay. Some sins are unto death and some are not.
But in part I feel you are right, Gods grace will cover much of our short falls and because of his grace much of what you say is true but that doesnt mean that is what God intended to happen. He can want much more for us and want us to grow into saint hood in the here and now. But because He knows more likely then not we will fall short He has provided a net of grace to catch us when we fall. But we should try to stay on the tight rope if possible and not automatically rely on the net below...
Blessings***
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Permalink Reply by Art Fontaine on
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I have to agree with Mike on this one...
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Permalink Reply by Dan on
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What then is your criteria for a legitimate place of worship? Does there have to be a certain amount of membership? What if I went to a church with only two members? You have to start somewhere right? Can it be a small, plain structure or does it have to be a big grandiose, opulent one? I do go to church by the way, a fairly small one and not too opulent. I do have the ability to go but there are many who do not or can not so what about them? There are also those undecided ones out there that if only the church would come to them and share the truth they could be saved. This is what I'm asking and saying. I think what you're getting at is that you have to be Catholic and follow that way of worship which of course is the only way to you. I believe that God wants us to be shepards. How do we plan to do that, put up a building and hope people walk in? Sometimes you have to hold services outside the temple first to bring people into it. You have to go to peoples homes once in awhile. You can perform the same ceremonies there that you can at the temple. I think your saying it's somehow wrong to not to be at the temple but I believe the temple is where you bring it. Sure, it's nice to go there but there is nothing that says you can't do the same exact thing at home. In the case of Catholics at home, can't you ask God to bless the ceremony? Why do you have to have a priest present as long as you're doing it the right way? You can still have fellowship with a small group of people can you not? If you feel obligated to tythe you can always mail it in. Let's talk about the other topic, sin. What I was basically getting at with that was that all sin can be forgiven, except one. King David was a murderer, Paul had Christians killed before Jesus spoke to him. God forgave them. So even though their crimes were horrible they repented and were saved. God however didn't forgive Sodom. Which sin is worse doesn't matter, God's Will is what matters. We think too much about ourselves and what we do and not enough about God and what He wants us to do. Let all the glory go to God and when we do something right for once, let Him bless us and love him for it.
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Permalink Reply by Disciple Mike on
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"What then is your criteria for a legitimate place of worship?"
Well as a catholic I beleive that the Mass holds an authority over all places of worship, but with that being said, I beleive there are all types of worship. We can worship in several different ways and several different places but as a catholic the Mass is above all these other types of worship and that is because of the Eucharist.
As for how many or how large a church must be I beleive it doesnt matter. Did you know that a priest will say a mass even if no one shows up. You see a mass is a celibration of the sacrafice and its done for the Lord. The flock reap from the Mass but its said for the Lord as a thanksgiving for what He has given.
Thats the problem with people they want what they like. Do they like the music or the message or who says the message or the way they say the message. That is a selfish heart. It should be about worshiping a King and not just any king but a King of all kings.
"There are also those undecided ones out there that if only the church would come to them and share the truth they could be saved."
And who says the church doesnt have an outreach program. Did you know the catholic church has the largest ministry in the world. Its larger then all the other denominations combined.
"Why do you have to have a priest present as long as you're doing it the right way?"
We beleive as catholics that a priest is a chosen soul hand picked by God to do things that others may not be able to do. There hands are ordained and sanctified to consencrate the bread and wine into the Body and Blood for one. There are other sacraments also but in general a priest has truelly left the things of the world and soley lives in the world by God's grace. Of course I am speaking about devote and holy priest, not the wolf's who are in sheeps clothing.
As for sin, yes all are forgiven except one. But you know as well as I we dont ask for forgiveness for every sin we commit. We sin so much it would be almost impossible to do so. God forgave Paul and David because they repented, if they didnt then they would take those sins unto judgement and a price would have to be paid for them. But this is a whole other topic maybe for another thread..
Blessings***
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Permalink Reply by Dan on
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It's good they have the largest ministry. Unfortunately, in my entire life I have not once had a priest come to my home to share the Word. As you said, it's a gigantic church with the largest ministry but they didn't send one priest to come share with my family in 36 years. There was never one phone call, letter, pamphlet, anything. On the contrary, many smaller denominations have sent people to my home numerous times. And I live in an area with a large Catholic population and there are plenty of their churches. There are 4 in my small town alone. What church am I most likely to attend, the church that went out of their way to reach out to me or the one that makes demands of me? It's not selfish to go somewhere that makes you feel comfortable and welcomed. To be selfish is to demand and not to give. I'm not saying this to be hateful, I just think the Catholic Church could be so much better than it is. If they'd reached out to me when I was young, things could have been a lot different. We are all not born Catholic or followers of Christ for that matter. Jesus said He came to save the sinners, not the righteous. The people that don't go to any church at all are the ones we should be worried about. That's why we should go to people and not just expect them to come to us.
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Permalink Reply by Disciple Mike on
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"Unfortunately, in my entire life I have not once had a priest come to my home to share the Word."
I'm probably willing to bet you never had a pastor come to your house either. There usually to busy attending there flock and the ones who come into there house. Most churchs send members to evangilize door to door. With that being said, I agree the RC should do more door to door.
But just because they don't doesn't mean there not evangilizing. It can be done in many ways, like helping the sick and the poor in the name of Jesus, which they door everyday.
Also Christ brings us to Him and just like He brought me to the RC He does so with others. No man brought me there it was a calling that came from within me that brought me home.
"It's not selfish to go somewhere that makes you feel comfortable and welcomed."
But it is, when we do something that makes us feel a certian way feeds our self. And that is selfish. If I told you that its better for your well being to eat veggy's but you didnt like them at all and chose to eat a supplement instead that is almost as good because its more comfortable for you, isnt that making a selfish decision?
"Jesus said He came to save the sinners, not the righteous. The people that don't go to any church at all are the ones we should be worried about."
But the church is filled with sinners, not the righteous. Just because someone is in a hospital doesnt mean they are healed. And just because someone is at a certain hospital doesnt mean its the right one.
I agree there are many out there with no church home and they need to be reached but the RC cant carry the whole burden on them its not fair. They are reaching many many souls otherwise they wouldnt have a billion members. Can they do more? of course they can but they are doing more then all the other christian denominations combined. So they cant be all bad.
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Permalink Reply by Dan on
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Hello Mike, I have had many pastors come to my house. I didn't agree with all of them but they did put forth an effort. I'm not lying when I say that. I don't think it's selfish if you are still worshiping and having fellowship at the place of your own choosing. Jesus said we can retreat to our own closet if we feel we must. To me I interpret this as meaning you can praise Him in your mind or by yourself. I think this stresses the fact that what is most important is that we praise God any way we can and it doesn't have to be in any certain location, meet any certain conditions or be with anyone else besides ourselves. I think we should go to church to learn if we are lacking wisdom but you can praise God anywhere, any time of the day. Knowing we are all children of God, we can have fellowship anywhere. I'm not so pious to think just because I go to church that I'm better than the man who doesn't. I'd rather share the love and Word of God with someone who hasn't felt or heard it than with someone who has. I think it's more important to increase the flock than to just be a part of it. So if I'm selfish for wanting to praise God in that way then I'm sure He'll forgive me. I don't necessarily think the size of a church is important. The Catholic church is the oldest Christian church and has been around for hundreds of years. And during it's history, the Catholic church has sanctioned violence, toture and murder against those with different belief systems. So it's no wonder why other churches have not been able to establish themselves the way the Catholic church has. Any opposition to it was crushed and they instilled fear in the masses. The Inquisition and the Crusades are just two examples of this. Times have changed and other churches are beginning to catch up, especially evangelical churches. They have the highest growth rate of any other church. And although the Catholic church has a billion followers, that number is shrinking not growing. So there must be a reason for that. I don't think it's just the wolves but the methodology they employ that has people leaving the Catholic church. There are after all wolves in every church. Jim Jones and David Karesh are two examples of that. I want the Catholic church to grow as I do all Christian churches but I think they need to reevaluate some things. One of the strongest messages I think Jesus sent was that all men fall short of God's grace. He says we must repent and ask God for forgiveness. We know when we've sinned. Going to church doesn't absolve us of our sins. Only asking God to forgive us does. This is why I can't understand the concept of confession in the Catholic church. Jesus tells us to ask God for forgiveness but Catholics feel the need to pass it through the priest first. Why? The priest won't forgive me, God will. Is the priest going to tell me something I planned on doing anyway? I think this takes the focus off God as the true forgiver. I see this as not blasphemy but a roadblock to God. Am I selfish for wanting to be in God's good graces? Do I have to wait to be forgiven until another man tells me I can be? It shouldn't be an endeavor to praise God and to ask for His forgiveness. These roadblocks aren't a test of faith, they just keep you away from God. As a Christian, I want to know He's with me all the time and that I'm not waiting to praise Him because the Church leaders tell me I have to. The RCC does do so much for so many, I'm not denying that. But you can't go to heaven through good deeds alone. Blessings
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